I have been looking back at my Dark Angel codex now that the new craze is the White Scar bikers and really trying to decide what is a better biker force. I can honestly say that I'm not really sure as they are both should be used in differant ways....
White Scars
The Chapter Tactics for White Scars have made them the talk of the town lately as Born in the saddle basically gives them a better version of Skilled Rider (auto pass dangerous terrain and +1 Jink cover save) plus the bonus of having +1 strength for hammer of wrath hits. The other one fight on the move allows for non-terminator and centurians the hit and run USR. I think that these suite the Scars of pale complexion very well.
All of this is for free just for taking a White Scars detachment in the Codex. Top this on top of the fact that if you have a Chapter Master or Captain on a bike that units of 5 or more bikes can be taken as troops. and that bikes are now 21 pts each can be taken in units of eight and can combat squad... OMFGWTF. I can understand why most people are talking about this.
This is a very cheap, hard hitting, combat focused unit that is harder to kill than normal bikes. Totally awesome. I like everything about this except that I would have to paint white power armor....
Ravenwing
These guys do not get the awesome Chapter Tactics that the White Scars get and cost more 27 pts instead of 21 and can only be taken in squads of six.. You would look at this a first glance and say to yourself that taking White Scars is a no brainer for the math.
Now you wonder why the White Scars are better riders than the Ravenwing and it really comes down to the fluff. The White Scars are riding from the onset of their time as a marine where the Ravenwing only start when they make up the ranks of secrecy of the Dark Angels...
Not is all doom and gloom for the guys in black though. You can still take these guys as troops if you have Sammael or Azrael as a HQ choice which is cool, but you can take a land speeder in the unit as well as attack bike unlike the White Scars. This allows you take these guys in the troops section as well to leave the fast attack slots open for Black Knights or the new Darkshroud, Nephilim Jetfighter, or Dark Talon. This gives the real punch to the force and with the Darkshroud around can give the Ravenwing that extra +1 to their cover save they didnt because of no Chapter Tactics.
Also it really comes down to what the Ravenwing do that makes them shine in my eyes. They are meant to be the recon for the hammer blow that is the Deathwing and not the hammer blow themselves. Remember this.... This is what those extra 6 pts are for in the cost... The unit has the scout USR and a teleport homer! You can get these guys across the board super quick make sure they are out of line of sight or in cover and have the teleport homer to bring the wrath of the inner circle to bear....
Now you can also have a Command Squad in the White Scars detachment. That is only a 135 pts for 5 models on bikes compared to the 200 pts for the Ravenwing command squad or 210 for a unit of 5 Black Knights... Here is where things get sticky for me on how this got pointed out. The major point differance here is that the Ravenwing units have the plasma talons and corvus hammers which can bring the points up quite a bit, but basically the SM command squad go the points cost increase based off of what the differance of what tac marines and bikers pts are. This is a way makes since and is an acceptable explanation. The one thing that doesnt make since here is that an apothecary upgrade costs 15 pts for the SM codex and 30 pts for the Ravenwing. WTF! We have seen so many of the points become basically the same across codices to bring some balance. I don't know how this one got over looked.
There is so much that is awesome about the Dark Angel codex and how the Ravenwing fit in there that I would really hate to see lots of players throw them to the side because the new White Scars seem better at glance and the internet is screaming that you must switch because Ravenwing are no longer tournament worthy or poweful enough or whatever. This isn't the case at all and one should remember what is the main use of the units in the codex to make it work, and I think both armies have differant uses as explained before. The only problem I saw was the apothecary, and that doesn't matter if you dont want to take it.
Tell me what you think.
I think the gravity gun also has to be considered. It is pretty well balanced against the other weapons on foot marines but the salvo+relentless takes it to a better level. Hence you have people talking about 5 of them in the command squad. I have a feeling that the secondary bitz casters are busy designing new gravametric rifles that look close but just different enough to not be copies.
ReplyDeleteI think that bitz caster will be busy copying anything they can to profit off the tail end of GW, it is good for us as we get more options as well.
ReplyDeleteI have to apologize to everyone as I made a big mistake and forgot that bikes have relentless. My bad... Now onto grav-weapons. The command squad can take 5 special weapons. as for grav weapons it is either the grav pistol or the combi-grav gun.... Now bringing these into account I believe the Ravenwing have a pts cost advantage, and the grav-weapon is not much better than the plasma talon. you can only take advantage of the salvo for one shot with the combi-grav and the grav pistol on shoots one shot. You have a much better chance of dealing damage over the course of the game with the twin-linked plasma talon that either grav weapons equipped unless you are facing AV 14 or toughness 7 or higher...
The FAQ says they have access to Special Weapons now but I do not have the codex myself to see exactly what that means. Command squads used to have access to plasma and meltaguns. They are in the picture on the box and on the sprues.
DeleteMy digital still says only ranged weapons which is
ReplyDeletestorm bolter
cobi-flamer, grav, melta, or plasma
grav-pistol
plasma pistol
With the inclusion of special you can get
flamer
meltagun
plasma gun
grav gun
A full command squad with all grav guns is 210 pts. compared to Ravenwing at same size is 200pts. I still think there is more damage potential from the plasma talons unless against AV 14 or toughness 7 or higher..... Now if you add the Banner of Devastation to the Ravenwing there is a much bigger difference.
I will not be giving up my DA ravenwing anytime soon, but the scars can do bikes so much better.
ReplyDeleteI guess it makes background sense that they're better riders as the ravenwing don't start riding until they get pulled into the group as opposed to the WS 'born in the saddle'.
But +1 jink? They can do the darkshroud rush without the darkshroud!
I also think people are *really* underestimating how powerful WS bikes with grav guns will be.
Not a huge surprise, DA's have always been the testing board for the marine codex.
I was talking to some others about this, but it ends up being cheaper for Black knights with plasma talons then the command squad with grav guns. If you have a RW command squad with the Banner of Devastation you can lay done more fire and it is just as effective against light armored enemies... My bets are still on the RW.
ReplyDelete